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Xelloss

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May 13 09 1:44 PM

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Hey guys, can someone explain to me why the hell Dreadlords DON'T have Spell Focus Necromancy? With them being the greatest necromancers out there, you'd think they'd have this feat at least.

I'd take away the ability focus to Frightful Presence and give them Spell Focus. Seems to fit more.

See ya,
Xelloss
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#1 [url]

May 16 09 10:00 AM

Responded to this twice now and got timed out! Grrr....

So I don't think the dreadlords/nathrezim are the masters of necromacy. Masters of deceit and guile, yes. Okay I think they are the only monsters in WoW that get carrion plaugue, but I'd say liches and death knights are better necromancers than the dreadlords.

In Warcraft 3, Mal'Ganis claimed to have created the plague of undeath, but IIRC this was a red herring. The Lich King was the creator of the plague.

Do they dabble in it? They can. Are the master of it? My vote is no.

aka Trousers

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Xelloss

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#2 [url]

May 16 09 10:11 AM

They're the oldest necromancers out there. They were doing necromancy since before the War of the Ancients, and in that war, they did a lot of it. That's A LOT of time doing necromancy. And considering that demons taught orcs (gul'dan's time) "warlock" arts and necromancy. It's safe to assume they're (the demons) the oldest practicioners of these arts.

In war of the ancients, the ones you see doing necromancy ALL THE TIME are the Nathrezim.

Demons get my vote as masters of "dark" arts. And among them, Dreadlords get my vote as masters of necromancy.

See ya,
Xelloss

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#3 [url]

May 16 09 11:18 PM

Xellos, vote noted. But I'm still going to call you on it.

It's been a while since I read the War of the Ancients, but I don't remember any undead in there. I remember the felhounds, infernals -- it was a Burning Legion. Is there something else you're referring to?

I agree with you that there definitely was undead before the plague. There were the Renevants though they under the Old God's control. And we've just seen sort of a "good" lich with Meryl in the Warcraft comics.

As to the The Old Horde necromancer orcs, I know in Rise of the Horde, Gul'dan & the Shadow Council was shown teaching the shamans warlock magic when the earth stopped heeding their calls. Somewhere between the fall of Draenor and and the First War, Gul'Dan taught the orc necrolytes. But if wowwiki can be trusted, it was Kil'jaeden that taught them.

aka Trousers

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Xander212

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#4 [url]

May 17 09 8:05 AM

No, Xellos is right. At least about the Undead in the War of the Ancients.

When Illidan is riding through the ruined town and there is that thick green mist, he gets seperated from his group and runs into hordes of undead.

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Xelloss

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#5 [url]

May 17 09 9:08 AM

Kil'Jaeden is a demon, right? On that we can all agree. I said that the demons taught gul'dan and his people the dark arts. That would include Kil'Jaeden XDXD

In war of the ancients, the "primary" necros for the burning legion were the Nathrezim. One display of magic is the green mist that covers Suramar, it turned every dead soldier or civilian into undead. I just found the description for the nathrezim in The Demon Soul ( page 226), it says that they're "extremelly skilled at magic - even more so than the Eredar -" and that they were responsible for raising the entire city (the description is much more rich, but I'm not gonna write it all down here XD).

That would indicate a lot of necromantic power, and there were only TWO Dreadlords doing the casting.

See ya,
Xelloss

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#6 [url]

May 17 09 2:24 PM

I think we're all in agreement that the First War orcs had to learn the necromatic arts from the demons. Please don't take it that I'm disagreeing with you there. I just wish I could find something official about who (eredar? dreadlord? a rogue imp?) taught them.

I'm still not completely convinced yet dreadlords are teh kingz of undead. However, Xellos, you present a logical argument. And unfortunately you're making me think I have to go back re-read the Demon Soul. Which in someways I should be grateful you're not forcing me to go back and re-read The Well of Eternity.

aka Trousers

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Xelloss

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#7 [url]

May 17 09 4:24 PM

Hahahahahaha, I enjoyed all three War of the Ancients novels hahahahaaha. But i can tell you that this discussion forced me to look up the description in the book and not rely just on my memory hahahaha.

I think this is one of the few lore-related debates we've had in this forum, which is kinda cool.

I haven't read Rise of the Horde yet, but it's the next on my list, then it's the two Warcraft 2 novels (Tides of Darkness and Beyond the Dark Portal), and then Night of the Dragon and Arthas XDXD (I have a lot of novels to read, after reading Cycle of Hatred, I read a star wars novel, Order 66: A Republic Commando Novel, now I'm back to warcraft). After I'm done with those, I'll read the Sovereign Stone novels a friend lent me.

The idea of Rogue Imps teaching anyone dark arts is amusing as hell hahahahaha.

See ya,
Xelloss

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Xander212

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#8 [url]

May 17 09 4:57 PM

I think it is fair enough to say that Nathrezim are much less guile and trickery than the MM leads you to believe.

I would say... Necro/Shadow Priest.

By shadow priest I mean spells that tear and your psyche and mind controll and mind altering stuff.

If im not mistaken the Dreadlords were the PRIMARY spell caster in the War of the Ancients trilogy (a lot for than two of them)

Like at one point werent they flying, hidden in an invisiable cloud just wreaking havoc until Rhonin figured it out and had all the Night Elf caster focus on the sky.

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Xelloss

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#9 [url]

May 18 09 4:36 AM

I agree, they were the primary spellcasters, the "secondary" were the eredar warlocks that came along hahahahaha.

I do consider them masters of guile, of course, in the war of the ancients there was not enough talk for them to use their natural skills hahahahaha. I think one example of manipulation at an epic level is Saidan Dathrohan, let's face it, having an entire organization of zealots who hate you kind do whatever you want, and not even suspect that there's something wrong with their leader, is not simple manipulation, it's a work of art. Also, making Sylvanas believe that Varimathras killed Balnazzar was also a very good act of manipulation, trickery and oscar-winning acting XD

Though I've noticed that Dreadlords do their best trickery when possessing someone (Balnazzar, Mal'Ganis), but, the standard RPG dreadlord doesn't have that ability, which is kinda weird.

See ya,
Xelloss

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#10 [url]

Sep 8 09 10:20 PM

If you have played Warcraft: Orcs and Humans

Orcs have necrolytes that deal heavily with necromancy, but not plague. The necrolytes were heavily associated with the warlocks and were derived from the shamans as they were corrupted. Also can be noted is Dark Shamans, those that literally use dark magiks to bind elements to their will like a shaman, but without the respect part.

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#11 [url]

May 25 10 4:09 PM

Re: Dreadlords

Xelloss wrote:
Hey guys, can someone explain to me why the hell Dreadlords DON'T have Spell Focus Necromancy? With them being the greatest necromancers out there, you'd think they'd have this feat at least.

I agree with Heydudes. There is much more to these spellcaster demons than necromancy. Therefore I would argue against them being the "greatest" of the previously stated. My basis is in the fluff of the Burning Legion's minions. The Scourge was created for one purpose and then to be disposed of. Undeath & plague would seem a fitting purpose for a disposable minion. I do not believe that the "jailers" of the Scourge would be as single-purposed as their prisoners. If they are the greatest necromancers out there, why go through trouble to create a lich? Oldest spellcasters of the school: yes. Greatest: no. Kel' Thuzad would have much more undead raised with greater potency than any dreadlord. imo

Xelloss wrote:
I'd take away the ability focus to Frightful Presence and give them Spell Focus. Seems to fit more.

If any GM was to give them a Spell Focus, give it in conjuration. Lich = skeletons as Dreadlord = doomguard

"I have not yet begun to fight!"
Captain John Paul Jones during the famous battle between Bonhomme Richard and Serapis on 23091779.

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#12 [url]

Sep 4 12 3:25 AM

I haven't known it either´╝î I just got a wow account .

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